MNT Reform Next: questions and expectations

Am I parsing this thread correctly that the WiFi chip will be on some specialized card (another SO-DIMM-esque format like the SOM), and not a standard M.2 or mPCIe slot? 802.11ac isn’t a dealbreaker, but I upgraded my networks to AX (WiFi 6) several years ago and it’s great - I had an Intel AX210 in my OG Reform which was pretty much the ideal BT/WiFi chipset, would love to put one in a Next if it’s possible, but I’m not getting the sense that’s going to be trivial to do?

1 Like

Correct! There are three accessory/port boards inside Reform Next. The one with the WiFi/Bluetooth module is located towards the rear of the case. I’m unsure if there’s enough z-height to put an M.2 2230 slot for wi-fi, but inside the machine is fairly tight. For now, every machine will ship with the module baked on the board.

There will be more material available to peruse later this week :wink:

3 Likes

A couple of questions about the Reform Next and its processor module:

  • How does the RK3588 boot?
    • AIUI, like its predecessors, the SoC will first look for NOR or NAND flash on SPI, then for an eMMC, then an SD card, and if none of these exist, will go into device mode on one of the USB 2.0 interfaces.
    • Is there a boot SPI? If so, how easy is it to reflash/replace?
    • an eMMC was mentioned for the mainboard. Does this mean no eMMC is populated on the SoM?
    • Is whichever port the boot ROM uses for USB device mode (TRM doesn’t state which it is) routed out to a connector or pads? I’ve been using this mechanism on the RK3399 and RK3566 for bootloader development (and want to continue doing so on the RK3588), so it would be nice if it weren’t routed only to a hub (which won’t be able to do anything with the SoC in device mode)
  • What RAM is used? The SoC supports LPDDR4/4X/5, and T-Firefly’s product page says they use LPDDR4/4X on their SoM. So is it 4 or 4X on the 32G module used by MNT? Which speed grade?
  • The available info for the screen and lid on the Reform Next is very sparse:
    • Does it have a lid sensor? (If so, where? Can it be used for wakeup?)
    • How far can the hinge be rotated? While I don’t expect the planned screen to have these features, it would be cool if, with a future screen option, one could turn their Reform next into a convertible with a touch- or pen-capable screen.
2 Likes

Hi @CrystalGamma and welcome to the MNT Reform community!

Some of your questions are not specific to the MNT Reform (or the Reform Next). If nobody ends up answering here, maybe owners of the board in other communities can answer your questions?

eMMC is not on the motherboard but on the SoM itself.

The SoM comes with 128 or 256 GB eMMC storage, depending on the module.

I cannot answer this question but if you know your way around in kicad, you might find your answer in the schematics: Reform / reform-next · GitLab

As far as I know: not (yet). Also, I have not heard of successful suspend/resume of the rk3588 in the MNT Reform. Do you know of people who have suspend to ram set up successfully with the rk3588?

A bit more than 180°

1 Like

I do not have KiCAD experience, but I should probably see if I can get it to run on my PBP. It seems the SoM adapter board routes out only 2× USB3+2, but the right port board is documented to offer 3× USB3+2 ports (2×C+A). If there’s a USB3 hub in that port board, it’ll be important which side TYPEC0 (which I found out is the “download port” according to the HW design guide) goes.

Checking the available docs, I just noticed that the CrowdSupply page and the repo README disagree on which port board has “USB Power Delivery” (though AIUI you can’t do USB3 over Type-C without a PD controller, to detect plug orientation; so I’m assuming this label is supposed to mean you can charge the laptop with it). I’m tempted to think it’s the left one, since its data lines most likely connect directly to the SoC and thus should also support dual data role.

I wonder if there is a way to safely (and reversibly) disable it, assuming the “download port” indeed goes out to a connector.

I was looking at the campaign and a little bit of the repo but I couldn’t find much about the hinges, and I’m not familiar with hinges, are replacements/alternatives easy to come by?

These are the hinges: MNT Reform Hinges - MNT Research Shop

If the Reform Next is to be a daily driver, being able to send it to sleep would be really good, rather than having to shut everything down before putting it in your backpack.

Is this more a matter of having enough time to implement the feature, or is there a problem with the hardware that prevents suspension?

1 Like

My A311D reform survives 7 hours unplugged and with screen off, i.e.: in my backpack. So what I usually do it to just keep it powered on when putting it into my backpack for my daily commutes. Lukas said in IRC that MNT tries to make hibernation work which should be easier than making suspend work and provide something similar.

I know of no hardware limitation that would make this impossible but I’m also not a kernel person. As far as I understand the situation, it just needs somebody with sufficient skill and free time to look into the problem…

1 Like

With about 5 hours of battery life, the Reform Next could do that too, no doubt. It’s just not something I would accept even from a cheap laptop in the year 2025.

That sounds counterintuitive, but then I’m also not a kernel/driver developer. Either way, not being limited to always-on would be sweet!

Yes, I agree. I also have problems with suspend/resume on other hardware though. For example my Thinkpad at work suspends but when it resumes, then the display comes on and i see my workspace as it was when i suspended but the system is completely frozen… I have no clue how to fix that either. Suspend/resume seems to be one of the more tricky features to enable on a platform, even if it’s x86… :frowning:

I think Sculpt would be quite promising for hibernation with the RK3588. It already has those features on x86 despite Haiku, a much more popular alternative OS, not yet having implemented suspend.

I suspect this is because the underlying Genode uses a microkernel, and certainly so much smaller and more manageable than even Haiku. It would thus follow that Sculpt can be customised (sculpted!) much more easily to the Reform hardware than linux. Genode also majors as a hypervisor for guest OS such as linux.

Maybe I was just lucky with my combination of Thinkpads and Linux distributions recently, but it seemed like Linux on Laptops was finally becoming a “boring” topic. (Now Linux and Bluetooth on the other hand… :expressionless:)

Hopefully this will be solvable for Reform Next, I think it’s a very exciting project!

I’m feeling adventurous, but not that adventurous. :sweat_smile:

Boring or adventurous? Nobody wants to be boring, but its natural not to want to make too much of a leap into the unknown. Fortunately, Genode recently made a video to debunk the common perception that Sculpt is intimidating.

1 Like

To be fair let’s just caveat this to Debian.

Suspend works on all of my x86 hardware with Linux and Windows.

Still what you suggest with turning the screen off and the runtime as a result is a good work around.

I really just wanted to post that hibernation would be the best, and most likely most stable, solution.

Really appreciate all of the hardwork going into the Reforms!

(typed from a Pocket Reform)

1 Like

lots of good thoughts in here but nobody so far has stated the obvious. what reform next needs most is a subwoofer.

1 Like

Plenty of room for activities in the chassis.